Public sentiment is varied, showcasing a mixture of national pride in China's military advancements, particularly in light of historical context, and skepticism regarding the implications of such advancements for global stability and U.S. military readiness. Many commenters express strong support for China's military capabilities and assert that they are necessary for self-defense, especially regarding Taiwan, while others voice concerns about potential aggression and the effectiveness of these developments amidst ongoing geopolitical tensions.

China

United States

Japan

Not sure how the US is supposed to maintain a decade plus strategic vision akin to China when congress and the executive are flip flopping plans every two years. 

The DoD also endured many continuous resolutions, meaning trade offs had to be made to make new program starts whole rather than have more money to pay for it. 

Also the reasons why acquisition is red tape hell is due to congress and their chosen regulations. If they wanted the DoD to be more efficient they could start with rewriting contracting  awards/maintenance from scratch. 

They could also change the way they fund the acquisitions. Imagine how much better stewards of money the DoD would be if they weren’t so hell bent on proving to the resource sponsor they are spending their allocated funds by every October.

mr_dumpster

I read the world's dominate naval power always has the greatest commerical shipping fleet...  

Another reminder beyond Ukraine and the Middle East that production is vital and all stockpiles are limited in light of modern warfare

WarEagleGo

&gt; In the northeastern city of Shenyang, the future of China’s defence manufacturing capacity is rapidly taking shape – an enormous new aviation industrial complex that will eventually occupy an area about the size of 600 football fields.

&gt; Video of the site was aired on a provincial television news programme in early July, part of a feature about the provincial governor’s visit to the headquarters of the Shenyang Aircraft Corporation. The firm, which owns the collection of new complexes, makes China’s main carrier-based fighter, the J-15, as well as the country’s most advanced J-35 stealth fighter and prototypes for a sixth-generation jet.

&gt; In the report, Wang Xinwei, governor of Liaoning province, pledged to build a “world-class aerospace city”.

&gt; Details of what the production lines would eventually look like were not revealed, and Beijing has been tight-lipped on such military facilities. However, the scope of the complex has raised eyebrows.

&gt; While the development of the military weapons used by the People’s Liberation Army (PLA) has seen rapid progress, the country’s industrial capacity to mass produce such weapons in the event of possible protracted warfare has also gained attention amid the wars in Ukraine and the Middle East.

&gt; Beijing has maintained a massive defence industry to support its military goals, which during wartime could be further bolstered by the civilian manufacturing sector, experts have said.

&gt; They have pointed out that these strengths could be key to winning conflicts, including one in the Taiwan Strait, as rivals such as the United States see their defence industries bogged down by budgets and red tape.

&gt; “China’s defence industry remains formidable and has increased its incorporation of information and digital technologies. Impressive examples include China’s carrier programme, advanced surface ships, stealth aircraft, hypersonic missiles and satellite programme,” said Timothy Heath, a senior international defence researcher at the US-based Rand Corporation.

&gt; The US Navy estimates that China’s shipbuilding capacity is roughly 230 times larger than that of America. According to a report by the Centre for Strategic and International Studies (CSIS) in March, China’s largest state-owned shipbuilder constructed more commercial vessels by tonnage in 2024 than the entire US shipbuilding industry has completed since the end of World War II.

&gt; China has the largest navy in the world, with a battle force of over 370 ships and submarines, including more than 140 major surface combatants, according to the Pentagon.

&gt; China launched its first aircraft carrier, the Liaoning, in 2012. It has since built two more, including the Fujian – which is equipped with an electromagnetic catapult and expected to enter service this year. A fourth aircraft carrier – likely to be nuclear-powered – is reportedly being built in the northern port city of Dalian.

&gt; Meanwhile, the top Chinese military aircraft manufacturers are reporting significant increases in profit, with pledges to further expand production.

&gt; Several of AVIC’s core subsidiaries have reported strong financial results. Its Shenyang branch, the Shenyang Aircraft Corporation, said in 2023 that it aimed to invest 8.6 billion yuan (US$1.2 billion) to build a production site 4.2 sq km (1.6 square miles) in size over the next five years. It is believed to be the same one that appeared in last month’s news programme.

&gt; According to its 2024 annual report, AVIC’s Xian Aircraft Industrial Corporation, which produces bombers and large transport aircraft like the Y-20, recorded revenue of 43.2 billion yuan, up 7.2 per cent year-on-year.

&gt; AVIC Chengdu Aircraft Industry Group, manufacturer of the J-20 stealth fighter and a leading contender for China’s sixth-generation combat aircraft programme, reported 1.78 billion yuan in revenue, up 6.1 per cent over the previous year. The company said it had entered a new phase of “intelligent cost control” and high-autonomy manufacturing.

&gt; A senior researcher shed light on the new efficiencies in an interview with state broadcaster CCTV in July. Sun Cong, chief designer of the J-15, said the planes were “being made like mobile phones as the functions are now software-based, so the systems and software could be designed separately [to boost efficiency]”.

&gt; “With global instability and conflicts flaring up in multiple regions, maintaining stability requires a strong defence capability,” said Fu Qianshao, a military analyst formerly with China’s air force.

&gt; Fu said that China had sped up its weapons research and development timelines in recent years to meet military modernisation goals.

&gt; “The traditional model – where a new generation of equipment might take five to 10 years to design – no longer meets the demands of modern military modernisation,” he said.

&gt; China’s defence capacity is underpinned by its strong overall manufacturing base, which, according to a Rand Corporation report last year, accounted for around 25 per cent of global manufacturing output, half of which was considered dual-use.

&gt; Lu Li-Shih, a Taiwanese analyst and a former Taiwanese navy captain, credited the vigour to industrial initiatives such as “Made in China 2025” – a national plan launched a decade ago to upgrade the manufacturing sector – and military-civil fusion (MCF), which not only encourages greater civilian contributions to the military but also enables military state-owned enterprises to support the broader economy.

&gt; “Aircraft production lines in China are designed for dual use – when military demand rises, they produce military aircraft; when demand falls, they can switch to civilian production,” Lu said. “This is the essence of China’s military-civil integration.”

&gt; The support China’s military receives from a strong industrial base contrasts sharply with recent trends seen in the US military.

&gt; In a keynote address in 2022, Cameron Holt, a retired US Air Force major general who was then deputy assistant secretary for contracting, said that the Chinese military was acquiring weapons “five to six times” faster than the US, according to a report in The National Interest.

&gt; It noted that while some US military hardware programmes may see rapid progress in their early stages, they could be hampered by budget adjustments – in essence, too much bureaucracy.

&gt; For instance, according to a July report by Breaking Defence, the engine system for the F-47 sixth-generation fighter jet was likely to face a two-year delay and would not be completed before 2030. The report quoted a US Air Force representative as saying that the hold-up reflected “supply chain challenges”.

&gt; The US Navy’s next generation attack submarine’s development was also expected to be “significantly delayed”, from financial year 2035 to 2040, according to a report to Congress sent by the Congressional Research Service in July. Such a delay could have an impact “on the future US ability to maintain undersea superiority and fulfil US Navy missions”, the report said.

&gt; Meanwhile, the next Ford-class aircraft carrier was facing a two-year delay – to March 2027 – USNI News reported in July.

&gt; Fu said American plans were not always adhered to. “Many US plans look good on paper but are abandoned before completion. Without a full development-production-sustainment cycle, it leads to massive waste in new weapons development. So even though the US has the world’s largest defence budget, its production capacity lags far behind China’s,” he said.

&gt; China’s supply chain was also a strength, he added.

&gt; “Manufacturing cannot operate without the support of a broad and complete industrial chain – for example, materials production is not strictly part of the defence sector, but is crucially related,” Fu said. “A comprehensive and self-sufficient industrial system is essential. Without it, even basic items like artillery shells cannot be produced independently,” he added.

&gt; China’s supply chain advantages include its near monopoly on rare metals that are critical for manufacturing various missiles and munitions. According to the Rand Corporation, 18 of 37 minerals relevant to defence applications are concentrated in China.

&gt; According to the 2023 CSIS report, the country was also the global leader in cast products and produced more than the next nine countries combined, including more than five times as much as the US.

&gt; “The defence industry provides China the ability to manufacture weapons and equipment to replace losses that are difficult for other militaries to replicate due to the lack of integrated defence industrial production networks,” Heath said.

&gt; Missiles and drones in particular are critical to modern warfare, and China has the ability to produce both in large numbers, an important factor in sustaining combat power, he added.

&gt; According to the Pentagon, China surpassed 600 operational nuclear warheads in its stockpile as of mid-2024 and will have more than 1,000 operational nuclear warheads by 2030, many of which will be deployed at higher readiness levels. China will continue to grow its force through at least 2035, it added.

&gt; “Parameters are important, but production capacity is even more crucial,” Chinese military analyst Du Wenlong said on his social media account in July, as he highlighted the role of mainland China’s pulse assembly lines in producing its warplanes and missiles.

&gt; Although Taiwanese analyst Lu believed that the mainland was likely to resolve the Taiwan issue swiftly – before US aircraft carriers could intervene – he argued that US forces were more likely than the PLA to face ammunition depletion.

&gt; He also said that PLA exercises near Taiwan were ideal for assessing its ammunition consumption levels, allowing estimates to be made during these drills and stockpiles to be prepared in advance.

moses_the_blue

It's a really bad strategic dilemma. Our economies are at the stage where massive industrial capacity makes the Chinese richer and more prosperous, while we would have to drag our economy back down the value chain and make ourselves poorer to compete.

China is massively industrializing by moving peasants into factories where they generally become richer and have better lives. We would have to drag our population back into factories from their cushy office jobs and make them poorer with worse lives. All for the sake of a strategic competition that most people don't care about.

MioNaganoharaMio

Another piece promoting the 'China-threat' narrative.The truth is that no Chinese defense company ranks among the world's top 20 by market capitalization is presented as proof of the weakness of China's military-industrial sector. Political propaganda can mislead people, but the market does not. The bigger these defense firms grow, the more it seems to confirm that China is pouring additional funds into worthless projects.

Material-Bee-5813

praqueviver

Well they graduate 10x the number of engineers each year than America, meanwhile American politicians try to teach the earth is only 6,000 years old and dinosaurs never existed

NY_State-a-Mind

Godzilla three ate a PL15 and the world was never the same again.

aaronupright

Nahhhhhh..... they are still the same as before. Like what do they used to call them? Temu? Paper tiger? Keep thinking like that. Nothing to worry about /s

commanche_00

Frightening? Ffs. Henry Kaiser is rolling in his grave so hard you can plug an entire city to it. What were US capitalists thinking outsourcing every factory to China with full knowledge China wants tech transfer and eventually tech independence.

Your rare earth minerals, Chinese. Silicon, Chinese. Steel, copper, aluminum, titanium, all kinds of metals. Every part of electronics. Glass and rubber and wiring and everything is made in China. Their smartphones beat Apple, their cars beat Tesla, they're the largest shipbuilder in the world and they are #1 in science publication. Doesn't take a long time to conclude that **civillian industry translates to military capability**. 

FDR would be ashamed to see that it was his own Democratic Party who signed up NAFTA and brought China into the WTO, and thereby made them the future superpower

fufa_fafu

Just keep in mind that a lot of this same talk was repeated again and again and again by folks about Russia's capabilities pre Ukraine.

There are multiple different people involved who would be *highly* invested in the idea of China appearing to be at parity or even beyond parity with the US. Obviously, Chinese intelligence would like that a lot and almost certainly has some sort of involvement with that becoming the story. But just as likely is the US defense industry. Now that Russia has stopped being the boogyman of the future, they need a new "big evil" to bang on about until people buy their conveniently priced new project.

In other words, don't believe all the hype. It's good to be wary, but to start talking about how the sky is falling is premature.

Galactor123

oh jee...where was this brilliant deduction 10 years ago?

lostcanuck007

Is this before or after their recent military purge showed they were lying Soviet Union style about everything.

Texas_Kimchi

China should’ve been kept leashed and destabilized. Now the giant is awake and an ethnically homogeneous 1.4 billion people are centralized into one party and one person. They also have a chip on their shoulder after centuries of exploitation. They know what the pain from real loss feels like and are not likely to ever willingly exchange peace and comfort for a submissive position.

Xi’s father was 88 when he died so there will be no near term succession we can fuck with. Unless we get lucky and he gets dementia or something similar.

We have a real enemy of our own creation. And the best we can hope for is a second fucking coming of Hong Christ. Either that or the hope that centuries of exploitation has made them too risk averse to directly challenge us, but that seems more unlikely every year.

dan_withaplan

Please use [Good Faith](https://www.reddit.com/r/AskConservatives/comments/107i33m/announcement_rule_7_good_faith_is_now_in_effect) and the [Principle of Charity](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Principle_of_charity) when commenting. We are currently under an indefinite moratorium on gender issues, and anti-semitism and calls for violence will not be tolerated, especially when [discussing the Israeli-Palestinian conflict](https://www.reddit.com/r/AskConservatives/comments/17ygktl/antisemitism_askconservative_and_you/).


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&gt;And almost every scenario says that China would easily win. On top of that, reports of Chinese weapons being used in the India-Pakistan conflict are being made. And those weapons have been called more powerful than the US. 

This is just Chinese propaganda quite honestly. China has a GDP per capita similar to that of Mexico &amp; Brazil, so while their total economy is similar to that of the US, a substantially higher percentage of their economic output is spent on feeding, clothing, and housing their massive population, meaning they have a *much* smaller surplus to spend on things like military development. China has a *long* way to go before they can challenge the United States's global military dominance.

SakanaToDoubutsu

War games are designed to be lost. That's where learning takes place.

Yes, China could easily win. Why? It's literally miles from their nation and were are 1000's with untested allies based on combat experience.

No those weapons are not more powerful than what is in the US arsenal.

To the topic of the question: We are combat tested, our weapons and weapons systems are as well. We are ahead (realistically) of China on tech and how to use that tech. Regardless of what is published, out systems that is known by the world and press isn't the only systems we have or have used. I am not an expert on missile guidance or target acquisition but this is NOT easily accomplished. Doing it in training is NOT like the real thing.

The last thing, amphibious warfare is probably the hardest type of attack to pull off. The amount of distance that needs to be covered by China to go after TW, PI, Japan or Vietnam would be no easy feet.

Dtwn92

America has 10 nuclear powered aircraft carriers. China can't match that. Our navy may have less ships, but we're still bigger and better armed and our weapons are higher tech. We're also heavily tariffing them, which is causing great instability in their economy. China will be a threat to America in a few decades, if they don't have an economic or social collapse, but they aren't right now.

soulwind42

To my knowledge, we are far superior ( mostly)to anything China has. They just have more of whatever they have.

TheFacetiousDeist

Trump has ordered new navy ships to be built.

YesHelloDolly

The US military has both the ability to win by overpowering, and a worldwide logistics chain that allows flexibility into nearly anywhere we could fight.

The concern, then, is thar a war with China would mean cutting off trade with them, resulting in significant damage to both economies.

WinDoeLickr

I'm not sure what analysis you're reading that says China would easily win such a war. I would suggest you look at some different sources, at any rate.

China's main advantage over the US in any potential conflict is that they have fewer overall commitments for their naval assets. That means that the PLAN can more easily concentrate its forces to best leverage its numerical advantage. The US has the advantage in almost every other category. If the US Navy can avoid becoming stretched too thin, then odds are America wins out over China. 

If something happens that demands a significant US response, like, say, Russia invading a NATO member, then it becomes more difficult for the US to concentrate its forces against China. That is part of the reason why Trump, and other administrations, have been pressing Europe to get is military act together for years. If Europe can present a credible defense in its own right, then the US has more options in the event of simultaneous flashpoints in Europe and Asia.

Long story short, advantage goes to the US, but with some caveats. It would not be a cakewalk by any means, but still a likely US victory. At least in my layman's estimation.

[deleted]

They’re gonna send me to handle it don’t worry

imbrickedup_

If China were capable of defeating the united states, Taiwan and the Philippines would already be Chinese territories. The US west coast would likely be gone too. China, as policy, takes whatever it can take whenever it can take it. International law means nothing to them, they simply don't comply.

If China hasn't done something, its only because they aren't capable.

Fantastic-Pear-2395

&gt;And almost every scenario says that China would easily win.

In no scenario is this true.

Valan-Luca

I am not worried about China's military compared to ours for 4 reasons.

1) They may have more ships but we have bigger ship. Based on tonnage the US military has double the deadweight tonnage of China's Navy even though they have twice as many ships

2) They have more missiles but missiles need launching tubes and we have twice as many launchers as China has.

3) China has never had a blue water navy. They don't have experienced shiphandlers like the US Navy has for deepocean operations.

4) China still requires CCP watchers on board every navy vessel to make sure the commanders are complying with CCP directives. Theis slows down decision making and in a conflict that can be the difference betweein winning and losing. US Navy Commanders have the autonomy to make decisions that are in the best interest of their ship.

Finally, Navy operations require multiple different types of ships plus air power. Our Navy has 11 Carrier battle groups which include an Aircraft carrier, a guided missile crusier, 2 anti-submarine frigates or destroyers and 1-2 submarines. China has 2 carriers groups that consist of an aircraft carrier although their carrier based planes can take off but not land, and other support vessels.

StedeBonnet1

China is not a military threat. Their weapons are more fake than Russias, they need our financial support, and no one is ever crossing the Pacific (or Atlantic) against the US Navy

AZULDEFILER

China easily defeating our military is a fucking joke. Look up the U.S. and China navies by tonnage; the U.S. easily beats China in that aspect. The U.S. has the largest Air Force in the world. The U.S. invented 5th and 6th gen aircraft. The U.S. invented icbms. The U.S. has 11 aircraft carriers. Shall I go on? China can get fucked…

WesternCowgirl27

Wow, I didn’t realize my job prospects at the future doll-making factory depended on obsessing over Chinese hypersonics. Sounds like someone’s auditioning for lead neocon.

InteractionFull1001

We really don't need to do anything. We have drone defeating weapons, en masse. We don't have anything to worry about with the pacific ocean in the way, and if they invade they'll only destroy California at most.

Shop-S-Marts

The following is a copy of the original post to record the post as it was originally written.

The global conflicts have started hypothetical talks of a US vs. China scenario. And almost every scenario says that China would easily win. On top of that, reports of Chinese weapons being used in the India-Pakistan conflict are being made. And those weapons have been called more powerful than the US.

So what is the US doing to outmaneuver China's military? I know there's no war between them, but I'm sure there's some kind of competition in terms of military power. What edge does the US have?  

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&gt; And almost every scenario says that China would easily win.

This is obviously untrue.  

&gt; And those weapons have been called more powerful than the US.

Citation badly needed.  

&gt; So what is the US doing to outmaneuver China's military?

Well, we're working hard at alienating our allies, cratering our economy, boosting Chinese trade with the rest of the world, destroying over a century of work building an incredible professional civil service, and weakening our military by placing a super weird emphasis on outdated and silly ideas of masculinity rather than basic competence, so..  not a lot, at the moment.

CTR555

Almost every scenario? Who says?

And what are the scenarios? Are we simply talking about an Invasion of Taiwan or a full scale conflict. Is China invading the US?

LiamMcGregor57

Trump is playing 5D chess by throwing our aircraft into the ocean, which China will never see coming. People only think of 2D, 3D, or 4D chess. But when you add water, that's a whole new dimension.

 Plus, it's chaos, so now they're scared and confused and are more likely to make a deal.

wonkalicious808

&gt; And almost every scenario says that China would easily win.

That's not even remotely true. It's much more complicated and contingent than that.

The most analyzed scenario is "Taiwan by force" and expert views on that are split.

War is politics by other means, the question is what resolve vs outcomes each side has. 

Such a conflict would be in China's back yard, which presents both advantages and disadvantages. The US would have to operate at arms reach, but has the capabilities to do this, as well as the likely support of South Korea and Japan.

China imports roughly half of their energy consumption from Arabia, and a huge portion of their exports flow through the strait of Malacca. This makes a blockade very painful for them. On top of that TSMC shutting down due to conflict means half the global production for microprocessors disappears instantly.

Another key question is just how tolerant EU powers would be of a belligerent scenario.

Anyone telling you it's obvious how such a scenario would play out is just a grifter lying to you. It's a difficult question with a lot of material and political unknowns.

throwdemawaaay

I dunno, but they're dropping jets in the ocean so my guess is nothing. Did doge cut the guy that applies the e-brake? Seriously. Wtf. Two multi-million dollar jets in, like, a week?

In all seriousness, China has been playing the centipede game with the US in terms of military investment. People "lose" the centipede game by failing to realize they're "playing" it, which means we're either "playing" them in a game they don't know they're in and we intend to "win" the game before they find out, or ww've somehow been out-foxed by a country that informed us all what their plans are and gave us 40 years to do something about it.

l0R3-R

ClarkMyWords

The GRAND STRATEGY:. We're kicking our own asses.  

They'll never know what hit us.

CessnaDude82

LOL! Well, the US Navy is dumping $70 million jets (pleual) into the Red Sea, talking about firing 20% of generals, firing officers that show even the slightest distaste with Trump, and dishonorably discharging transgender service members. So, doesn't seem like they are doing much at all to prepare for any large scale military conflict.

Independent-Stay-593

China doesn't have the ability to float an army across the Pacific... is their plan to march across all of Europe and still not be able to cross the Atlantic?

DreamingMerc

China makes over 90% of all our medicine.

In a war, they would just stop sending us medicine, then wait.

erieus_wolf

Wish I could downvote this twice lmfao this reads so poorly

vomitingcat

Cleverly, we will bankrupt ourselves and cripple their economy when they buy us 😂😂😂

Cautious-Tailor97

No-Ear-5242

Pretty much none of your premises are even a little bit true.  0/10.

China does not want a war with the US and is not nearly at the same level militarily.  China uses soft power. 

If it did come to war the US would have to be the aggressor and would have the advantage in that we spend much more money, have better military technology, and have bases all over the world.  The biggest disadvantage we have is that the executive branch of our country is entirely morons who leak all the confidential information and war plans.

WildBohemian

Odd-Principle8147

The US edge is the navy.  It's more powerful than all the navies of the world combined by several factors.  In particular, China doesn't have any super-carriers while the US has 11.  And that edge is especially huge since China needs maritime trade to stay afloat and it's surrounded by countries that don't like it.  The main reason China wants Taiwan is that the island will give them total control over the Taiwan Strait and the waters to the east of Taiwan.  That's a hugely important trade route.  If the US blockades China's merchant ships, China could retaliate by blockading the Taiwan route, which would cause a lot of discomfort.  This would not be enough for China to dominate the world but it would discourage its enemies from messing with it.

Particular_Dot_4041

To be fair, there aren't a lot of conflicts the US wins in the long run. Are we worried about China invading the US?

ejacoin

The US has every advantage, and it isn't even close.  I'm not sure where you are getting your misinformation from.  Take a look at defense spending to start with.  The US spends more on defense than the rest of the world combined.   [https://www.globalfirepower.com/defense-spending-budget.php](https://www.globalfirepower.com/defense-spending-budget.php)

m3sarcher

Any military conflict between USA and China would quickly escalate to include every major power. I can't believe the world would be that dumb. If we see a push for an agreement to forbid use of nuclear weapons, we may see another world war.  Could we defeat China and Russia (who have an unlimited defense agreement), along with bit players, in a conventional war? Doubtful.

AnxiousPineapple9052

Aside from the general pivot away from Europe and the poorly-conceived dreams of a second sino-soviet split, the answer is "spending an absolute shit ton of money".

* $34 billion rebuilding America's naval industrial base

* $21 billion deepening and improving the US military's magazine 

* $14 billion improving solider quality

* $13 billion modernizing the nuclear deterrent 

* $7 billion improving US air fighter readiness and on accelerated development and procurement of next-generation systems

* $25 billion developing a multilayered missile defense system  

That's all on top of all those programs that already existed and all of the funding already allocated, and it's not even close to exhaustive. It's also worth noting that the focus on most of this spending within each of these categories is very obviously on developing or maintaining capabilities against an enemy that looks identical to China trying to invade a territory that looks identical to Taiwan. 

https://armedservices.house.gov/uploadedfiles/bill_text.pdf

DirtyDaddyPantal00ns

bro we're in no position to fight china rn jfc

  
Can we stop fucking around abroad and fix our shit at home?

Interesting-Shame9

China and the US are too entwined economically, even with the current bullshit, for a military conflict to be plausible.

FoxyDean1

I've heard enough.

Increase the budget to $2 trillion.

Antiwhippy

&gt;“Our last fight was captured on somebody’s [iPhone](https://archive.is/o/zmL6t/https://www.scmp.com/topics/iphone) 14, and their last fight was captured on oil and canvas,” said Smith of the US Marine Corps. “They ought not forget that, that we know what we’re doing. We know how to war … know how to be a joint force.”

Oh man, nothing worries me more than our dudes underestimating a foe like China. If they think China is another Russia then I'm afraid there will be a lot of shocked Pikachu faces when shit hits the fan.

Also, technically speaking, their last war (border skirmishes with Vietnam in the 80s) were captured on films. They are freely available on Youtube even !

ImperiumRome

You know what would be funny?  After all these years of preparing for China. When they eventually do take Taiwan they'll just put sanctions on China. Because the alternative would be trillions of dollars in a war that's looking questionable every passing year.

widdowbanes

I don't really get the logical connection in the article.

The brass is saying that the US is facing a shortfall in ship-building, which is why they want to pivot to drone ships.

It seems to me that if you have a shortfall in ship-building, then you want a small number of very high quality ships that are difficult to destroy. That generally means large, manned ships bristling with defensive weapons and detection systems, i.e. upgraded Arleigh Burkes. You don't want to spam out unmanned ships, which theoretically can be the same quality as manned ships but probably are not.

Is there some kind of logic I am not seeing?

armedmaidminion

The US military is not built today to specifically face off another major super power, because it doesn't feel it needs to: any superpower real war would end in MAD. 

The US military is built to conduct asymetric warfare against weaker countries with maximum impunity, to reap resources for its oligarchy, and protect its power projection. That's the true mission of stealth fighters, aircraft carriers, and volunteer only forces.

The question is what happens when two superpowers want the same resource from a third weak country...

eternal-return

&gt; The US faces pressure to modernise and respond to China’s rapidly advancing military capabilities and ambitions, top Pentagon figures said, vowing to hasten the integration of manned and unstaffed systems to overcome a “readiness crisis” decades in the making.

&gt; Senior officials from America’s navy, marine corps, air force, space force and coastguard argued the US needed quickly to adapt and innovate amid the People’s Liberation Army’s growth, particularly given a relative shortfall in shipbuilding and other areas.

&gt; “They are certainly putting a lot of resources into the capabilities,” said General David Allvin, the US Air Force chief of staff, of the PLA, speaking on Monday at an event organised by the Council on Foreign Relations, a US think tank.

&gt; “Will they fight? I don’t want to find out. But they’ve got a leader who has an ambition,” he added, referring to Chinese President Xi Jinping. “That’s something we need to take very seriously.”

&gt; “Time matters,” said Admiral James Kilby, the US Navy’s acting chief of naval operations, at the event. “That’s a variable we typically don’t think about and should think about with China. So, 2027. Time matters. Contracting matters.”

&gt; Although Kilby did not elaborate what he meant by 2027, it is a date frequently cited in US defence circles as a timeline for when Beijing could use force against Taiwan. Beijing, on the other hand, has never clarified any timeline for reunification.

&gt; Kilby acknowledged serious concerns about American shipbuilding capacity compared with that of China and urged the expansion of unstaffed systems to compensate.

&gt; “I have no doubt about the quality of our ships, and no doubt about the way we employ them and train them,” he explained. “But … quantity, that is a concern for me.”

&gt; Delays were widespread across nearly every class of US warships, according to Kilby, who called for accelerated investment in unstaffed surface and undersea vehicles to supplement traditional fleets.

&gt; “I’m disappointed with our ability as an industrial base to react to that quickly,” he added. “Virtually every one of our shipbuilding classes is behind schedule for a number of reasons.”

&gt; The US military was looking to transition to “a hybrid fleet”, Kilby continued, referring to a mix of traditional and unstaffed fleets as well as undersea, surface and air vehicles. He said such a composition was in use in Ukraine and that “there’s great value there”.

&gt; At present, China has the world’s largest navy by number of vessels and stands at more than 200 times the shipbuilding capacity of America, according to US Navy estimates. The disparity has raised alarm at the Pentagon over its ability to keep pace with China.

&gt; General Eric Smith, commandant of the US Marine Corps, said at the event on Monday that his branch was prioritising unstaffed sensors and long-range precision fires, such as drones, that could strike from a distance rather than legacy artillery.

&gt; Smith believed future armed conflict would “be about range and about detection”, saying: “It’s a higher finder game and the advantage goes to … who can find the adversary.”

&gt; China has rapidly expanded its own military drone programmes, fielding systems like the Wing Loong and Chang Hong-series drones that resemble American platforms in design. They have been widely exported and combat-proven.

&gt; In orbit, the US Space Force is coming to terms with a PLA that has developed defences to “deny” America’s ability to use extraterrestrial systems, according to General B. Chance Saltzman, the force’s chief of operations.

&gt; The US has spent decades building systems to enable services such as satellite communications and weather, Saltzman said at the event, and now “our adversaries” have built capabilities to “expressly take them out” in the western Pacific.

&gt; “That makes me mad,” the general added. “It makes me mad that I don’t have the tools yet to be able to protect this joint force from that fight, and I think we have to address that particular threat.”

&gt; In a related vein, Admiral Kevin Lunday of the US Coast Guard said his service, which patrols the Arctic and Pacific regions, was stretched dangerously thin.

&gt; “We are at the lowest point of readiness than any other time since the end of World War II,” Lunday said, in response to a question at the event on operations by China and Russia in the Arctic region and America’s Indo-Pacific strategy.

&gt; “That readiness crisis has been decades in the making. It’s been caused by chronic underfunding in the face of increased mission demand across our range of missions and services we provide the American people,” he added.

&gt; But Lunday said US President Donald Trump had pledged to “reinvigorate the coastguard” to “avoid strategic failure”.

&gt; Despite the challenges, the senior Pentagon officials insisted the US still held significant qualitative advantages over China.

&gt; “Our last fight was captured on somebody’s iPhone 14, and their last fight was captured on oil and canvas,” said Smith of the US Marine Corps. “They ought not forget that, that we know what we’re doing. We know how to war … know how to be a joint force.”

&gt;Despite the challenges, the senior Pentagon officials insisted the US still held significant qualitative advantages over China.

&gt;“Our last fight was captured on somebody’s iPhone 14, and their last fight was captured on oil and canvas,” said Smith of the US Marine Corps. “They ought not forget that, that we know what we’re doing. We know how to war … know how to be a joint force.”

Well the last war the US fought they took a embarrassing L, and the last time China's weapons were used in a conflict, they performed exceedingly well. Hmmmmmm gee let me guess how the next one will turn out. 

This kind of hubris just makes you want the US and China actually face off in the Pacific. 

&gt;In orbit, the US Space Force is coming to terms with a PLA that has developed defences to “deny” America’s ability to use extraterrestrial systems, according to General B. Chance Saltzman, the force’s chief of operations.

&gt;The US has spent decades building systems to enable services such as satellite communications and weather, Saltzman said at the event, and now “our adversaries” have built capabilities to “expressly take them out” in the western Pacific.

&gt;“That makes me mad,” the general added. “It makes me mad that I don’t have the tools yet to be able to protect this joint force from that fight, and I think we have to address that particular threat.”

I don't get it comments like this? Like he's mad that his adversaries are keeping pace or that he knows the next opp's he's going to fight actually has hands and can actually reach (the homeland)? Spent decades sleeping on the wheel honestly. It's actually really embarrassing how the US had a 2x decade lead on China and LITTERALLY threw it all away for the failed GWOT moment. If anything it's the US that doesn't learn from history. They should have realized that Afghanistan is a grave of empires and it's looking like it going to be ours. 

I'm tired of these articles like they are coming off as the US is whining that China is catching up or pulling ahead and that the US military is gonna have a tougher and tougher fight against China as the days go by, as the years pass and we still are in the same whining position we are as we were last year. Crying about we don't have ship building or how unfair they stole US technology blah blah blah. I wonder what kind of direction the articles will take when China clearly pulls ahead the US, are they going to be like "China needs to be benevolent as the US was during our time as the Global Leader" 😵‍💫😵‍💫

ParkingBadger2130

But think of the money a bunch of dead people saved by selling off the US shipbuilding industry?

Actually they're not dead, because they actually have decent health care.

PaintedClownPenis

&gt;“Our last fight was captured on somebody’s iPhone 14, and their last fight was captured on oil and canvas,” said Smith of the US Marine Corps. “They ought not forget that, that we know what we’re doing. We know how to war … know how to be a joint force.”

Your last fight was losing to Afghan goat herders wearing dress and using sticks and stones. Running with you tails tucked in between your legs  (Whatever weapons they have aren't that much better anyway). Your procurement is bloated and expensive as shit, you have zero industrial base, and you're dependent on your greatest rival for all the most important components and materials used to make your weapons. America is so corrupt, we sold and abandoned everything for short term profits and went surprised pikachu face when shit hits the fan. Yeah the US military knows jack shit.

Lenin was right, the Capitalist will sell us the rope which we use to hang him

Nuclear Taiwan is likely the cheapest solution.

Frosty-Cell

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